Visiting China Moderator A few tips that I want to tell you how this seminar room works. Just hang in there with me as we get those going. For those of you who can see it, there’s a photo on your screen. Three individuals starting from the left is the director of the Hadley School for the Blind in Fuzhou, China. His name is Chao Wan Chong. He lets us call him Chester and he will be visiting with us shortly. Next to him is an instructor from Hadley Central here in Winnetka who visited China in late August and has been working with the Hadley School for the Blind Staff and Faculty Spoken English Tutoring. Nafisa Keels is a full time instructor with Hadley here in the US. And finally in the photo to the far right is Andre Lukatsky. Andre arrived in Fuzhou, China this past Sunday evening. Andre is a director of computer services and is working with Hadley China to upgrade our computer systems in that office. A fourth person joining us today from Hong Kong not pictured in the photo is Kristie Gillson. Kristie is a former Hadley student and is currently working and studying on a research project in Hong Kong. And Kristie is currently the Chair of Hadley’s Student Advisory Committee. So we will over the course for the next hour here from all four of our visitors … excuse me … folks in China, and also offer an opportunity for you to ask questions both through text messaging or if you have an operating microphone we’ll be able to hear you as a group. George Abbott, our dean, is on line and George I would ask if you have any quick tips that you want to share for JAWs users, would you do so now. Moderator: Thank you George. Let’s begin by first calling on Chester and perhaps each of our guest speakers will have just an opening comment or two. Chester has, as I said, been the director of our school in China and has been since the school started 18 years ago. Chester himself is a former Hadley student. Good morning Chester, how about …you say Hello to the world because we have visitors from around the globe on this morning. Chester: I’m very pleased to be in the seminar and this morning, but here in China actually we are at night. Now it’s over 10 o’clock PM. I’m very pleased to let you know now the Hadley school in Fuzhou China, shortly and we call Hadley China, has been opening for 18 years since 1998. Now we have served more than 2,000 students. Actually now active students is about 1,000. On the other hand, twenty courses have been offered to our students including one for parents of blind children. So everything is going well. Maybe, I will have a few more words later. Moderator: Thank you Chester. Nafisa, would you like to say hello to the group. Nafisa: Hello, I’m Nafisa Keels. I’m an instructor with the Hadley school. I presently am in Fuzhou, China helping with English instruction and also hoping to learn a little bit of Chinese myself, and learning about how they provide courses here in China to the Chinese speakers. Moderator: Thank you Nafisa. We’ll be back with you for your impressions since you’ve joined Chester and staff there. Andre, you’ve just arrived in China on Sunday. Say hello to the group. Andre: Hello this is Andre Lukatski. As Dawn had mentioned I’m here in Fuzhou working on upgrading Hadley China’s computer system. And I will have to say that so far the biggest challenge for me was using Chinese version of Windows, but I managed so hello everyone. Moderator: Thank you Andre. Finally, introducing Christie, you’re with us out there in Hong Kong, aren’t you, Christie? Christie: I most certainly am. It’s my pleasure to be here having an opportunity to speak with all of you tonight here and… whatever part of the day you may be encountering wherever you are. I’ve been in Hong Kong since January and will be coming back to the US in December. I would just like to say if any of you have a chance to visit China to visit Hadley China in Fuzhou Chester is one of the most hospitable host I’ve ever encountered in my life. He’s a true pleasure to meet and so is his family. It’s great to be here with you all and I look forward to hearing whatever everyone has to say. Thank you. Moderator: Thank you Christie. I think maybe we get started today with a question to Chester. Just so that everybody has an idea of what education for blind people in China is like. Chester, do you want to talk a little bit about the education system for blind people in China please? Chester: OK. I would very much love to talk about something regarding education here in China for the blind and students or blind people. As you know in China we have a lot of schools for the blind and because in China more students we have a lot of blind people, totally about 8.7 million including the low vision and visually impairment. So in China mostly blind students can enter the schools for the blind on basic education. After six years of primary school they can also enter the middle school for senior education. In the middle school they almost learn how to do the massage as a vocational training program. After that some of the students can be allowed to enter the university. Nowadays here in China there are several universities including Beijing, United University, Chung Chun University, Shanghai, Normal University and most universities can accept blind students to be enrolled in especially the program for them is to teach them alternatives to learn how to do the massage therapy, and music and on the other hand piano tuning. So after that … OK, maybe I just stop here and I will answer the questions if you have any questions for me, I will be here to answer your questions later. Moderator: One more question for you now, Chester. Would you tell us why you felt it was so important that the blind students who are now Hadley students in China … why was it important for them to learn English? Chester: I think it’s a good question. Why so many blind people as blind students wanted to be enrolled in Hadley China learning English. As you know China now has a policy to open door to the outside world since 1978. So on the other hand China has been growing very rapidly in recent years. The sighted people have more chance to learn English when they enter the university to get higher education. In the past there was no more chance for the blind people to get such a higher education so they are eager to learn English. And fortunately in 1988 the Hadley Central opened overseas office here in China, so many blind students to learn that is a very good opportunity for them to learn English. Many of them enrolled in our program because they have realized English is very important as an international language, which can be used to communicate with others. Thank you. Audience: Can I ask a question? Moderator: I believe David, you want to ask a question. Go for it. Moderator: Would you repeat the question? Was the question about Braille in China? Nafisa, would you like to take that question? Guest: Is it the Braille in China like the Braille in France or America or England? Moderator: Chestor or Nafisa would either of you like to take that question? Nafisa: Hello, I’ll be happy to take that question. I’ve been studying the Braille Mandarin codes since I’ve been here. And it does use the sixth dot cell system that we’re all familiar with. It is considered a grade one or uncontracted system. There are no contractions. And it is based on the sounds or the pinion of the Chinese language, not the characters. Audience: Can I ask a question? Moderator There was a question, go ahead, please. Audience: This is Gloria and Peter from Seattle. My question is that the gentleman earlier was talking about the 2 kinds of professional training massage, music oriental kind of training. I am curious about whether there’s thinking or effort around developing other areas of either training or even going for higher education since obviously not everybody would like to do those 2 things and just for long term purposes. I mean if those professions somehow are not as effective as now then … I mean … do we not want to develop newer areas of studies or professional training for the blind in China? Moderator: Chester, you can certainly add to this answer, but I can tell you from my visits as well. While massage therapy and massage doctors or therapists and doctors are both highly respected in China, many students who wish to learn English and come to Hadley China do so for the additional opportunities that English language ability give them in term of careers. And in part translator jobs become available to them. Chester: Yes, now most of our students, maybe 70% of our Hadley China students are doing massage therapy job. And while they are hoping to learn English because as you know now that China society has been opened to the world. And each year many foreigners, foreign guests visit China and some of them are very interested in being served by blind and massage therapists. So the blind students who are doing massage therapy and if they can learn how to speak English, they will have no problem in communicating with foreign guests when they are served. So, most of our students are very interested in learning more English in order to serve the foreign guests much better. Thank you. Moderator: Nafisa, would you mind sharing with us? You’ve been in China now for over 3 weeks. You want to share any of your thoughts or impressions. Are things that surprise you as you spent time in Chester’s home and his community? Nafisa: Yes, thank you. My first impression is just as Christie said hospitality is wonderful. People are very friendly and open and curious. They want to know more about people who are not Chinese. The staff at the Hadley school is also very open and warm, well educated and hard workers. I am very impressed with the progress they’ve made with students and teaching them English. As a country it is very obvious they have a long history and an unbroken history unlike those of us in the United States whose families came from different places and many of us have probably lost touch with some of the early people who settled the country and our relatives in other countries. In China the majority of the people know a lot about their own history and it goes way way back for thousands of years. So it’s had some very positive effects, I think, on family life and their own personal identity. Moderator: Andre, you’re there only a few days. Any impressions you’d like to share with us? Andre: Well, I guess I’ll speak from the technology standpoint. I was amazed at how complicated as to do simple tests we do very easily as in typing a letter, typing an email because in Chinese Windows you have to assemble that character by character. And you’d have to kind of spell out each of the characters so it can be placed in your email or your document. That’s kind of interesting observation. I can just add to Nafisa’s comments about the hospitality and it’s an amazing country. The food is great. Any other questions you may want to ask me. I’ll be glad to answer. Moderator: We’ll move on to Christie real quick and then have an opportunity for more questions. Christie has been in Hong Kong since January. Hong Kong’s a big bustling place. I’ve been there. I love it. Christie, talk to us a little bit about life in Hong Kong. Christie: Life in Hong Kong as you said Dawn is very busy. People often work until 10 at night it’s not uncommon. The people are very friendly, very interested in the West and actually they are in the middle of redefining themselves, trying to decide if they are Chinese, if they are combination of Chinese from the main land and retaining their identity as Hong Kong Chinese, if they’re still influenced from the colonial roots that they have. So there’s a lot going on here. One other thing about China in general I’ll say very quickly Dawn is that I am so moved by the community of blind people that I can have in China and actually everywhere in the world. When we have the opportunity to chat with people in China as Nafisa and I do regularly when we teach English to them the sense of comradery, the sense of understanding goes very deep and it’s really a pleasure. Moderator Thanks Christie. Andre, I see that you have a text message. Do you want to talk about it just a second? Andre Yes, I can talk about it for a little bit then I will ask Chester to speak about it in details. After coming here, I have seen Chester use a Chinese screen reader which is I believe is actually an adapted version of scientific JAWS for Windows. And it has a speech synthesizer that reads everything on the computer in Chinese characters. In addition to JAWS synthesizer that speaks everything that appears in English characters. It works quite well. So Chester, if you want to talk about a little bit about who makes that screen reader and where people can get it. Please go ahead. Chester OK, let me introduce something about Chinese screen readers software. And now here in China we have 2 main types of Chinese screen readers and developed by a blind person named Wong Yong Der who is now living in Sen Tzen nearby Goung Zhou. Another is a group of programmers. We can say China real press and screen reader and now I’m using a screen reader developed by Mr. Wong Yong Dur. I think it’s really and very lucky to most blind people now we can use such a good Chinese screen reader like JAWS So we can use it to do everything when we enter any of the menu, all of the things on the screen can be read to us so we can know and we can understand where we are. And on the other hand, if we want to edit another code we can also type everything with the voice and read to us so we can choose the correct characters to and put in. Also we can choose some of the characters who are combined with other characters to form another words and something like that. So very convenient for us to do the computer job now in China here. Moderator Sue Melrose you have a question? Maybe not. There was a text question. Chester, some body would like to know if blind people have careers or jobs in technology in China. And Christie may be you wouldn’t know the answer to that in Hong Kong. Chester OK. Nowadays to my understanding, now the blind persons who do some technical jobs may be just developing the software. And on the other hand, recently maybe the blind people want to do something technological and just to develop software. But Wong Yong Der is one of the most successful in doing so to create and improving his screen readers for Chinese blind persons. Guest Could you hear me? Hello? Moderator I think you are in Malta. Go ahead please. Audience In China if you have access computers at schools? Chester I’m sorry. I didn’t hear you. Maybe you asked me in China if schools for the blind has access computer? That means computer with access technologies? Yes, I think so especially in the large schools for the blind such as Beijing’s school for the blind, Shanghai’s school for the blind, and Ching Dao’s school for the blind. There are a lot of computers with access technology. So there the blind students are actually having the computer less than each day. I have been visiting and many of the schools for the blind. I’ve just mentioned some of them I have been to. So I have learned in China nowadays that most the schools for the blind a student can learn how to do something in the computers with access technology. Moderator Christie, we have a text message asking about cane travel in Hong Kong. Do blind individuals use canes and how is the travel situation? Christie Oh, I can say a lot about that. Compared to those of us in the U.S. who are used to using long canes. The canes that people use in Hong Kong and in China…I apologize I have some issue with my computer … the canes that are used in China and in Hong Kong are much shorter. And so whenever the people in China see my cane they’re amazed at its length. Cane travel is not nearly as common as it is in the U.S.. People often have guides or just walk without the cane. And that’s another thing that I found very interesting. Audience Is it like … the landscape in China very different like … to travel on than in the U.S. or is it the same like …? Moderator Christie, you can continue with the landscape of Hong Kong. And Chester you might like to talk about your area of China. Christie, go. Christie The landscape in Hong Kong is extremely hilly for anyone looking to go on a diet, I recommend some time here. It has worked quite well for myself. They also have guide paths. As do those of us who have lived or have been to Europe you would be familiar with the two metal strips that are close together and can guide us to certain locations. Compare to the U.S. the roads are quite uneven and there are many small steps and again, similar to Europe many steps are not regular. They might slope one direction or the other. And there are also very irregular patterns to steps so you might have to go down two and then walk a while then go up five and then walk a while and turn not even a 45 or 90 degree angle, just a little to your right or left and descend or ascend some more. So, for someone who is used to orientation and mobility from a grid perspective it has been quite an adventure. Moderator There is a question about guide dogs and I know you left yours at home, Christie. Are there any guide dog schools or use of service animals in Hong Kong? And then Chester answer please. Christie As far as I know there are no guide dogs currently in Hong Kong. There is, however, a public service commercial aimed at helping the public, which has 2 dogs waiting for a bus. One of the dogs has sunglasses on and the one with sunglasses says to the other dog “I can get on the bus now”. So the attempt is there to try to educate people that dogs are welcome on the bus. And the disability discrimination ordinance that was passed in 1995 in Hong Kong does allow dogs access. Moderator Chester Chester Ok, let me introduce something about the blind people walking with a cane or some other things and about the guide dog here in China. In my area really it’s very crowded. Nafisa and Andre recently they have been and understood. So crowded and it maybe difficult for blind people to walk alone. And even though they have canes to help, it’s still very difficult. So mostly here in Fuzhou, maybe in China, most of the blind persons go out or walk around with some of the sighted people and to go within as guides. And really nowadays in Fuzhou, several main roads we have kind of roads specifically designed for blind people to walk and that road usually on the side walk and raised lines guiding the directions. So the blind persons can walk on such a raised line road. For some of the reasons and most of the blind people always go out with guides because it’s really crowded especially when they are trying to cross the street where it’s difficult. On the other hand about the guide dogs now in china we have an institution in Dailien where they are starting to train guide dogs. It is the first institution. Some people there are starting to train guide dogs but have not been successfully providing guide dogs to the blind persons so far. Thank you. Audience More blind students attending normal schools or special schools? Chester I’m sorry. Just now half of your questions have been … I didn’t hear. Could you repeat it again? Thank you. Audience In China, are there more students attending main stream school, normal school or special schools for the blind? Chester For basic education and secondary education, most of blind students are studying in school for the blind. And on the other hand, some of students who are also studying in school for the sighted people that we are calling intergraded later education something like that. After the basic and primary and secondary school education, some of them can be allowed to universities, colleges for higher education. But they have to pass the entrance examinations. Audience What are some of the other careers other than massage and piano tuning? Chester So far, that has become a question how many types of jobs and the blind people can take here in China. To my understanding nowadays, massage is one of the main vocation … careers blind people are keen of and taking. In the past we had several factories we called welfare factories where the blind person can take jobs there making paper bags something like that for some of the materials. But now most of the people maybe starting to learn how to do massage therapy because of the country, and because the factories. Some of the factories have not been continuing doing that kind of job for the blind workers there. Audience I know China make a lot of electronics … stuff like that. Everywhere you see in U.S. when you buy stuff it says made in China. I was wondering if blind people make some of the stuff that’s sent to the U.S. like … actually have jobs making stuff like that. Chester To my understanding now, other than massage therapy, maybe no more jobs now for blind people to take. It is a very important point that Chinese government are now trying to create more kinds of jobs for blind people to take. Just now you mentioned some of the electronic products can be sold in the U.S. or other parts of the world produced by the Chinese blind people? I have never heard about that. I’m sorry. Audience I was just wondering there’re actually factories where blind people were actually working at making some of the known things that say made in China on them. Chester Here in Fuzhou there are 2 factories for blind workers to work in the past. But now really the factories…I just visited one of them I found it out because of the marketing economy now in China so the people with visually impairment have no more jobs they can do in their original factories. So, some of the blind workers has been turned to do the massage therapy, especially for the healthcare but not exactly for curing and treating some of the disease. In the past the factory for the blind workers to work in usually just now I mentioned produced paper bags or plastic bags for the constructing materials, maybe we can say concrete … I’m not sure if this word is pronounced correctly. Thank you. Audience I’m wondering if the factories for the blind in China, are where some of the blind people have worked are they run by the state, another words the communist government? Chester Sorry, also I didn’t catch what you have said in the first half. Would you repeat it again? Moderator Chester, the question and there’s a second question related the question is … are factories run by the government? And there was also a question asked to whether the schools for the blind are run by the government as well? Chester Yes, the factories usually in the past for blind workers who work in is run by the government. All the schools for the blind are run by the government. Moderator There’s a question about services to blind people. We have many agencies that provide services here in the United States. Christie, I’m wondering if you have had the opportunity to see the Hong Kong society for the blind. I have and I know it has many services that we are familiar with here. Are you aware or have you had a chance to visit? Christie Oh yes. I have a good friend at HKSB, Hong Kong Society for the Blind. One interesting difference that I would point out to those of us from the west that I have notice is that … I’m sorry. I should say from the U.S. … is that almost all of the services provided to blind people are either from the government or from not for profit organizations. That is NGO. There are very few services that blind people have chosen themselves to receive. And the consumer movement idea has not caught on as much as in the West. So often it’s well meaning individuals who provide charity typed services in Hong Kong. Audience I have a comment about the job situation in Hong Kong as well as in China. Ok. I appreciate Chester’s point about the fact that China is right now moving towards trying to develop different kinds of jobs for the blind people. I grew up in Hong Kong and actually I was one of the first programmers’ developer in Hong Kong and Christie can also talk a bit more about the current situation. I was just in Hong Kong several months ago last month. What I understand in Hong Kong right now there are different kinds of jobs available. For example, social workers is quite common. Interpreter is quite common, obviously, programmer and developer too. So I don’t know whether Christie, you are aware of other kinds of jobs that visually impaired people do in Hong Kong. Audience How much does a music therapist who is blind I mean a massage therapist who is blind make in China? How much should do they get paid? Moderator Christie, do you want to address the first question? Christie Sure it’s a kind of hard to jump in here. I have a very little knowledge about the employment situation in Hong Kong. I’ve been studying tertiary students with disabilities, post secondary students with disabilities. But there are professors in Hong Kong who are blind or have other disabilities and so. From my experiences, it seems as if Hong Kong is the most advanced, although I have not visited Taiwan yet. Singapore, there are people in many different kinds of jobs that is not as advanced as Hong Kong in the sense that the variety of jobs available to blind people are not as large. And then China, China is improving so we’ll wish them luck as they continue that process. Chester I just wanted to add something about the jobs for Chinese blind persons to take. And really here now in Fuzhou schools for the blind, there are three teachers with visually impairment. They are usually teaching music and massage therapy. On the other hand, some of the blind persons can grow and plant some of the specific things like mushrooms and truffles in rural area. On the other hand, a few blind people who are very skillful, who have learned how to repair some of the electronic equipments like engine something like that. Is it amazing? Thank you. Moderator There are a number of text messages asking about the different kinds of technology. I can tell you that in Hong Kong at the Hong Kong Society for the Blind they do have representatives of the various kinds of technology often kinds produced here that are made available to Chinese blind people. So they are quite interested in technology and using it substantially. Audience I was gonna ask if they have like note takers or something like that besides maybe the laptop or regular computer I was wondering whether they have like actual note takers, Pac Mate in China. Moderator Chester, would you like to talk about the technology that you use? Chester: OK, now because Hadley Central is very concern about the equipment here at Hadley China so they provide me with several kinds of advance equipment such as the Pac Mate and the Braille Lite and the Pac Mate. So I really have very good devices to work. But most of the blind persons are now unable to use electronic equipment such as a Braille Note Taker something like that. But really such devices now have been developed by some of the universities and institutes. For example in Ching Hau University, their Braille display has been developed. And now they are starting to sell such a product publicly. On the other hand now in Chinese China, Science Academy, now they are planning to develop Note Taker with Chinese synthesizer. So I am sure maybe in the near future, such an equipment like Note Taker used in the United States will be developed very soon and provide them to Chinese persons who are eager to us them. Thank you. Moderator Chester, you have a chat room that … of course, Christie and Nafisa have both been a part of to help with spoken English practice. Do you want to talk about that chat room? And people are asking about the ability perhaps to participate. Chester OK, I would very much love to talk about our chat room. Since last year we create our chat room from our website so now almost one year passed, the chat room is very welcomed by our students because they will have such an opportunity to talk with our instructors especially from last year, Christie and Nafisa were regularly talking to our students in chat room to improve our students with their spoken English. So the chat room now has been popular in Hadley China. As a result of and most of our students so far have not an opportunity to own a computer so the students are still limited who can talk in the chat room. But chat room it is our window for blind people to talk with our instructors and American teacher or American volunteers and most of our students hope to have more opportunities to talk with native English speakers. So we warmly welcome more and more American volunteers who can talk to our students in our chat room in the near future. Thank you. Moderator Nafisa, any thoughts on the chat room, any additions? Nafisa Yes, the chat room is certainly a great location for Chinese speakers to improve their English skills. We just talk about a variety of topics. They can come in with questions about a specific word or phrase that maybe they’re trying to understand better. And we try to encourage everyone to do some speaking. Every once in a while we have people who just want to listen because that’s the stage of language acquisition that they are in at the moment. But it is very enjoyable, easy and I do hope that we can gather more people interested in joining the chat room. It’s a lot of fun. Audience I have a question for Nafisa. Moderator Yes, go ahead. Thank you. Audience This summer several of us from the school for the blind in Washington were at an orphanage for blind children that’s just south of Beijing. And there are a couple of students there that are in their teens that would benefit from the chat room. Is that acceptable or is it just for Hadley students? And if it’s just for Hadley students is there some way that those girls can register? Nafisa I don’t want to speak for Chester but I’m assuming that they are certainly welcome to join. We have … I’m pretty sure some students already in the Chinese chat room, who are not necessary Hadley students but are considering becoming Hadley students. And if these young ladies have an opportunity to enroll in the Hadley China program, I would hope that they could do that as well. Audience Could you give me an idea how much it would cost them? Nafisa It’s my understanding there is no cost at all. Just access to a computer when they are in the chat room and then the Hadley program for Chinese students shouldn’t cost anything. Am I right, Chester? Cheste Exactly, when blind students or other people related to blind education can enter our and log on to our chat room talking free of charge. Nothing has to pay. Audience That’s great. I also just wanted to add that while I was at this orphanage at this foster home, one of the teachers of Braille there was visually impaired and also they have a girl coming this fall who is totally blind who is going to be teaching Braille and she received education in China for being a Braille teacher. I’m not sure where she received that education but I know that she’s totally blind. Moderator We are getting a text message. There’s a great deal of interest in this speaking Chinese by English speakers and the question is does Hadley have plans to teach English speakers Chinese. I can tell you that we have just begun conversations about developing such a course. So it’s on the discussion board for us but has not been adapted as a project as of yet. The interest in the seminar this morning has helped me understand that there is an interest in this area. Also answering the question related to cost, Hadley China students study with us for free. Just very much like the Hadley U.S. based program. In fact Hadley here in Winnetka has students worldwide who study with us for free. So the school in China is operated much like the one here. Most recently of interest in China has been an expression of a desire for courses for parents of blind children. Up until now in the past 18 years of the schools existence in China it’s been all about teaching English in English Braille to blind Chinese citizens. We had no programs for family members as we do here in the States. So we have begun with just one course in pilot for families of blind children and of course, this is taught in Chinese in the Hadley China School. So we’re beginning to expand our programming in the overseas school. I’ll give one last opportunity we’re coming up on the … we’re past the hour that we were to be on. I do appreciate the continued interest in this subject area of last comment from the presenters and just a note to those who are online if you want to share this seminar with others, it will be archived on the Hadley website in just a couple days. If there’s any resources that we can think of that related to the topics covered or asked here we’ll try to put those up as well. But the complete seminar will be available at Hadley dot edu under the events button and then the seminars at Hadley button. Final words from China. Chester It’s nearly close the seminar here from China and to talk to all Hadley students around the world. One thing I would like to talk is…we warmly welcome our Hadley students around the world to join us in our chat room if you are interested in working with us together and you can send email to me and then we can make plan in the near future to arrange some of you and talking to our students in different time. Maybe some of you can talk with our students in the daily time and maybe some of them at night. My email address is chester at Hadley dash china dot org. I’m sure Nafisa can let you know exactly how to log on to our chat room. Maybe you can also contact Nafisa for that matter. Thank you. Moderator Final message Nafisa, Andre and Christie. Christie This is Christie. I would like to bid all of you because we are past midnight at this point. A good Thursday morning from China and for those of you who have not had a chance to visit this part of the world come see it it’s amazing and it’s the future. Thank you all for being here. Andre This is Andre. I want to thank everyone for attending the seminar today. If you would like to discuss some of the topics, you’re welcome to go to the Hadley discussion board that’s available on the Hadley website Hadley dot edu under the forms link and you’re certainly welcome to go to the discussion board and discuss and bring up new topics and I’m sure that Nafisa and Dawn and Chester can check in and answer some of your questions there. We will be closing the room in a few minutes so once again. Thanks everybody. Christie Jai Jian everyone. Thank you very much for your great questions and looking forward to seeing some of you participate in the English chat room for Chinese speakers. Moderator Thank you from China and staying up to midnight to share some of your experiences and such wonderful comments and information with us. And thank you to everyone who participated today. We’re signing off and again if you would like to revisit this seminar go to Hadley dot edu the archive will be there in a couple days. Thank you all.